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AI Challenge Forums • View topic - Number of turns?

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Number of turns?

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Re: Number of turns?

Postby BarsMonster » Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:42 pm

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Re: Number of turns?

Postby eburnette » Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:16 pm

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Re: Number of turns?

Postby codeRage » Sun Sep 19, 2010 12:32 am

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Re: Number of turns?

Postby McLeopold » Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:55 am

I'm for longer turn limits. I'd prefer no turn limits.

The games that end quickly most likely 2 bots that are unevenly matched, or 2 bots that have big weaknesses and one broke through. These types of games are not the ones we will be interested at the end of the contest. It is not right to say this is the way most games will go because these are not good or interesting games.

Two very good bots will most likely both build fast and similarly and get into a situation where they need to try and break a stalemate. These are going to be the matches that will decide the top bots. These are the matches we should want to last until there is a winner, even if it takes 2000 turns. If these matches are few and far between, it will not be extra load on the server.

There are matches where both bots stop attacking. These would continue forever unless stopped.

Here's my proposal.

1) Make the turn limits 2000 turns.
As long as both bots are trying, they should be allowed to continue.
2) If there are 50 turns without fleet order from either side, end the game.
2b) A game ended prematurely is called in favor of the bot with the highest growth rate, since if left to continue forever, they would end up with the most fleets.
3) If there have been 2000 turns, end the game.
3b) If a bot has twice or more ships than the opponent, the that bot is called the winner, otherwise it is a draw. This should be fairly easy to program in for bots trying to turtle.

This should encourage bots to always go for the kill, which makes for a stronger bot.

If the turn limit is to remain low, at lease allow for a larger margin of victory before calling any bot a winner.
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Re: Number of turns?

Postby Fritzlein » Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:38 am

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Re: Number of turns?

Postby McLeopold » Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:59 am

http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=4537465

I hold the center planet with several unclaimed neutrals on my side of the board. The game was called too early. I'd be okay if this were called a draw.

P.S.

Beanhome, congrats on the win.
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Re: Number of turns?

Postby Terr » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:06 am

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Re: Number of turns?

Postby McLeopold » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:07 am

http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=4571027

One, this probably should have gone longer as well.
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Re: Number of turns?

Postby McLeopold » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:27 am

http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=4559530

I promise I'll find one that I didn't lose at some point so I don't sound like a whiner. ;)
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Re: Number of turns?

Postby yellowseed » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:31 am

I like what Fritzlein says. McLeopold's examples look good to me, but I don't think these kinds of cases justify changing the rules.

I argue that the goal never was to write a bot that wins or draws no matter what the turn limit, but to write a bot that satisfies the documented conditions for victory. We don't change the constraints to satisfy our code, we write code to satisfy the constraints. I see this as programming competition, not a requirements negotiation competition. Maybe your arguments will win over the contest administrators and the requirements will be changed, but then I would be upset: I don't like it when requirements are changed.

Well, that's just how I see it. My two cents.
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