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AI Challenge Forums • View topic - Number of turns?

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Number of turns?

Share and discuss ideas for your entries here.

Re: Number of turns?

Postby McLeopold » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:51 am

http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=4573213

Okay, one more. This probably should have been called a draw.

The turn limits, AFAIK, have not been decided. I think time will tell how long good matches should last. The problem description states:

The game ends when only one player remains, or if the game goes past a certain number of turns.

I'm arguing to let bots duel it out and favor calling draws if they do need to be stopped.
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Re: Number of turns?

Postby delt0r » Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:05 am

That game would have gone on forever. That's not going to work. *Most* games, including yours, finish under 200 turns. The few games that don't really arn't going to make that much difference.
It was like that when I got here.
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Re: Number of turns?

Postby Terr » Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:38 am

The problem with the "only number of ships" metric is twofold.

First, it's a bad incentive. Normatively, both AI should be trying to reach victory. However, as it stands right now, there can be a benefit to writing your AI so that it looks ahead towards the state at turn #200, and switches to deliberately avoiding investing fleet strength to capture more neutral productive capacity, and instead focuses on maximizing its ships for turn #200 with a strategy which would clearly fail if the limit was not in place.

Second, it makes for wins/losses by a margin of a single ship on games which are clearly stalemates, since that single extra ship isn't enough to give the attacker a decisive advantage in taking any planet.
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Re: Number of turns?

Postby yellowseed » Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:06 pm

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Re: Number of turns?

Postby temp_dummy » Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:16 pm

On the other hand, if those opposing were able agree to such clear rules about the combat and stick to them, then they would very rational people.

But if they were so rational and rule-loving people, they will properly have rules about engaging in combat (do not do it) and tons of procedures to prevent the act of war.

Also, game theory says (not really) that if there are such clear rules to a game, he who breaks them has the advantage.
The other party will be outraged that the rules were broken, on the other hand, it's hard to be offended when you are exterminated.

Just saying, I like your story, but did you think it through.

(200 moves is fine BTW.)
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Re: Number of turns?

Postby McLeopold » Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:25 pm

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Re: Number of turns?

Postby adumlah » Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:02 pm

my vote is for increasing turn limit.

though this contest is still relatively young, it seems to be an emerging pattern that the top bots tend to produce more standoff situations than the lower-quality entries.

i submit this game for reference:
http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=4576051

now, i'm not claiming i was going to win it, but i sure would have liked to know what would happen in the next few turns!

the fact that most games end well before 200 means that increasing to 300 won't increase the server load significantly.

the real problem is that the backend is not capable of running enough games. with 1700 bots, there's just too big a field for one server to run all the battles. if the contest admins really won't add more servers, one potential workaround is to have the probability of a bot playing be proportional to the log of its rank. ie, the higher ranked bots would play more frequently. there's no reason for a bot ranked 1500 to play as many games as a bot ranked 10th.
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Re: Number of turns?

Postby Terr » Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:19 pm

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Re: Number of turns?

Postby voidptr » Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:49 pm

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Re: Number of turns?

Postby Terr » Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:09 pm

The problem isn't the turn-limit, the problem is that there's not enough of a "tie" zone.
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