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AI Challenge Forums • View topic - Details on intended map generator for the final contest

It is currently Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:56 am Advanced search

Details on intended map generator for the final contest

Random stuff about the contest, posts that don't fit in the other forums.

What mix of maps would your prefer?

Point Symmetric (current maps)
15
44%
Line Symmetric + Point Symmetric
7
21%
Even More Wild (like changing number of planets)
12
35%
 
Total votes : 34

Re: Details on intended map generator for the final contest

Postby amstan » Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:11 am

I added a poll for everyone to vote on.

The way i see it: The do not limit the design of the maps at all, not even the symmetry part(symmetry at all, even if one side is disadvantaged). We'll probably make sure the maps are symmetrical, so it's fair for the 2 people; but the rules do not state how symmetrical, it could be both .
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Re: Details on intended map generator for the final contest

Postby bocsimacko » Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:17 am

I take it the first options ("point symmetric") means "use the current map generator".

Voting for any other option is basically saying "please, move the optimization target, I didn't invest too much time so far".
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Re: Details on intended map generator for the final contest

Postby antimatroid » Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:47 am

"Voting for any other option is basically saying "please, move the optimization target, I didn't invest too much time so far"."

Not true at all, I have been under the impression that maps like these will be used for over a month, it is just as much a disadvantage to not use more general maps for people who haven't made assumptions than it is flipping the roles.
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Re: Details on intended map generator for the final contest

Postby bocsimacko » Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:18 am

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Re: Details on intended map generator for the final contest

Postby Accoun » Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:19 am

stuped idea change rules in last week
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Re: Details on intended map generator for the final contest

Postby amstan » Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:26 am

Just a reminder that this does not change the rules a bit.
These map parameters are not specified in the rules, and should not be treated like they'll never change.

People doing optimizations for specific maps need to understand that they're gambling on the fact that the maps will not change.

By not adding more maps we will be favoring contestants that trained their bots to work on specific maps and have made assumptions about map parameters. Disadvantaging people that did not make assumtions and went only by what it said in the rules.

The maps offered in the competition are samples of what will come in the final competition, they will most certainly not be used as is. YYou should not train your bots exclusively on the current maps."
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Re: Details on intended map generator for the final contest

Postby Accoun » Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:52 am

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Re: Details on intended map generator for the final contest

Postby lavalamp » Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:15 am

...if your window isn't square when looking at these maps they totally do not look symmetric, that confused me at first. I also think it's a pretty bad idea to make a drastic change like this so late in the competition, but I will be testing my bot with these maps and on ones with differing planet counts anyway.
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Re: Details on intended map generator for the final contest

Postby Mistmanov » Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:17 am

I'm gonna agree with bocsimacko, for all the arguments he listed. Especially the "even without consciously optimizing for a certain map-type, you're probably still optimizing". I doubt that anyone has written a "perfect" bot, so all the bots will contain rules that are generally a good idea. If some rule enhances your chances of victory on 75% of the maps, it's a good rule.By changing the type of maps, all the "generally a good idea" could suddenly change into "generally a bad idea". Such a radical change is unwanted in the last 2 weeks of a 3 month competition. There's less than 1/6th of the time remaining, and you want people to go recheck every little thing in their code to see if disabling it might lead to better behavior on the new map types?

Besides that, changing it also seems kinda unnecessary. What exactly is the use? "the maps will be more interesting" can mean two things:

1. the battles will be more interesting for spectators to watch (a completely irrelevant argument if you ask me)
2. it will produce a more interesting (== different!) problem for the bots to solve, by which you're automatically admitting that new maps require different code to win.

Both 1 and 2 aren't exactly arguments that outweigh the negatives mentioned earlier.
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Re: Details on intended map generator for the final contest

Postby antimatroid » Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:23 am

On the reverse side, the rules have always been stated such that these changes could be made, some of us haven't been following any specific ideas to optimise on maps meeting these exact requirements because it has always been said that the maps are likely to change. To then enforce the old map standard just because some people made an assumption gives the people who made assumptions an advantage.

It was never said that the given example maps and generator should be used as an exhaustive testing tool, in fact I've seen it said many times that that would be a terrible idea.


Edit: It would be nice if people would also try some of these maps out and see what you think, I don't think anyone gets an advantage in them being used except over those who made assumptions, whereas the new ones are much more interesting maps.
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