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AI Challenge Forums • View topic - Challenging discussion

It is currently Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:44 pm Advanced search

Challenging discussion

Random stuff about the contest, posts that don't fit in the other forums.

Do you like current challenging system?

yes
7
39%
no
11
61%
 
Total votes : 18

Challenging discussion

Postby hellman » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:25 pm

I'm 11th in ranking. Why do i have only games with players with rank > 400? They mostly use standard bots or from advanced strategy's tutorial and are easy to win. It's not a problem of a rank, but playing with better players shows weak sides of the bot, so that i can continue developing it. I suppose, it's more rational to play with closer participants.
I don't ask to change anything, but i want to know the ideas behind the system. ;)
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Re: Challenging discussion

Postby Janzert » Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:13 pm

The current system just randomly chooses two bots. There has been a plan to change this for a while, but the server problems have delayed it. Now that the problems are being resolved I'm sure this will being coming back to the top of the list.

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Re: Challenging discussion

Postby Alpa_akm » Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:10 pm

I think I read somewhere that they're fixing this to fight against closer users in rank, i.e +-50 from your rank
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Re: Challenging discussion

Postby dstufft » Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:24 am

This is correct, There are plans to fix the scheduler so that it selects better fights.

I think they plan on selecting fights that narrow the confidence gap of the ranking system but don't quote me on that.

And yes the server issues pushed all improvments to "on hold" status while we got everything stable again.
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Re: Challenging discussion

Postby BarsMonster » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:17 am

Not only skill have to be changed.
It would be also nice to have more games among top scorers, and after submission.

For example, after you submit, you have 10 quick fights (but not more than 30 per day) at highest priority
Then you dedicate top1000 players priority 2
Then you dedicate top250 players priority 4
Then you dedicate top100 players priority 8
Then you dedicate top25 players priority 16

So players in top25 will have 16 times more chances to have a game in comparison to guys after 1000.
Also, with 10 ASAP games this would make scoreboard way more robust at the same resources consumption.

(And I would surely vote for 100ms timelimit or 3-10 times more servers).
Having just 0.3-1 games per hour in average is not great (and this will get worse as more players are joining).
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Re: Challenging discussion

Postby temp_dummy » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:25 am

That is just egocentric.
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Re: Challenging discussion

Postby BarsMonster » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:40 am

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Re: Challenging discussion

Postby dabino » Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:27 pm

Perfect matchmaking system should:
- Ensure equal periods between matches for all players
- Generate random matches
- Pair players from "ranking proximity"

This can be achieved by following simple steps:
1. Divide all set of players into 2 groups based on ranking number: evens go into group 1, odds to group 2
2. Add random (0..N) integer to ranking of each from group 2
3. Sort group 2 by new amended ranking
4. Generate pairs from two groups: group 1 first with group 2 first, second with second etc.
palyer1>go!
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Re: Challenging discussion

Postby dstufft » Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:15 am

Personally i think it should work like this.

The first player selected acts as a control to ensure people are getting to play roughly the same amount of games, as well as get new submissions quick feedback. It does this by selecting a random bot with the lowest number of games played where games played is < N. In this case we can pretend N is 5, or 10, or whatever, the point is that new submissions get priority until getting a certain number of games under their belt. Once all the bots have atleast N games, then the first player is selected by picking which submissions last played game was the longest amount of time ago. This functions as a round robin of sorts, making sure that all submissions are getting a chance to play games.

Player 2 is then selected based on what will increase the accuracy of the rankings. Once a player 2 has been selected, it checks if Player 2 has had a game with Player 1 within either of theirs last X matches, if it has, then a different Player 2 is selected. This allows us to selects games that will make the rankings more accurate, but also acts as a way to give the games variety so that people are not playing the same games over and over.

And obviously a check to make sure that Player 1 != Player 2

This system allows us to balance between making sure a player is promised a match in a round robin like fashion, (assuming there arn't new submissions pushing them back), allows new submissions to get quick feedback on the quality of their bot, and allows the AI Contest system to work to make the rankings as accurate as possible.
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Re: Challenging discussion

Postby Tracer » Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:41 pm

I think that there should be a way to remove weak "forgotten" bots from the game. Ways to solve that if a bot was not updated for X days AND has position greater than Y:
1) Start to slowly reduce average amount of games (good variant of inplementation of that option was mentioned above).
2) Send an email to the bot owner about continuation of participation. If user not confirms his wish to continue to fight with existing version of his bot then switch to plan 1). Additionally add a resign option to the email, so user will have 3 options: ignore email, resign with existing bot, insist on using existing bot.
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