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AI Challenge Forums • View topic - Prototype & Proposal: Multiplayer Asteroids

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Prototype & Proposal: Multiplayer Asteroids

Ideas for the Future

Re: Prototype & Proposal: Multiplayer Asteroids

Postby akarukov » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:50 am

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Re: Prototype & Proposal: Multiplayer Asteroids

Postby smiley1983 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:53 pm

I find the idea of endlessly-splitting asteroids interesting, and think it could work well in such a game.

I probably won't be doing much more with the code, though. If I were doing more, I would first want to resolve some issues in the current code: supporting multiple ships per player (if such a thing is wanted), and working out the best sort of integrator and collision detection method to use. Currently it uses simple euler integration with a fixed step size, meaning rapidly moving objects can leap through each other when they should collide. Because there is no gravity, it may be acceptable to chop it up into several smaller steps when there are objects moving further than their own radius in a single turn (for example). Someone more enthusiastic about the mathematics would have to have a look at it if this were being used for the contest.

Also, looking at some games, I'm not at all sure that my method for adding bullet speed to ship speed is valid. Either that's wrong, or something else is going wrong on the turn the bullet is created, I think.

I'm also unsure about the suitability of this game for the contest. I think it's familiar, interesting, feasible, non-trivial, and fun to watch. However, I don't think it's easy. I would be happy to be proven wrong if someone can explain a simple set of principles for flying around without dying, but it isn't obvious to me. This may just be a reflection of my lack of maths knowledge, but I think it will put many beginners off.

That being said, I do like the idea very much. I might take another look at the code sometime, but if someone else is keen, I encourage them to fork and improve.
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Re: Prototype & Proposal: Multiplayer Asteroids

Postby eiisolver » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:14 pm

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Re: Prototype & Proposal: Multiplayer Asteroids

Postby akarukov » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:28 am

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Re: Prototype & Proposal: Multiplayer Asteroids

Postby McLeopold » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:42 am

I'm in favor of the following mechanics:

1) Asteroids continue splitting to make survival harder in the end game. It could be a count of splits that can be configured and tuned. Asteroids is 3, we could have 10-20.
2) Ships have an energy amount that is finite and used for thrust and weapons. When out of energy you just float and can't shoot. Maybe it goes up with a kill. This gives the game a natural progression so it doesn't last forever.
3) Predictable asteroid splitting, as much as possible giving floating point accuracy.
4) Limited mobility. Large turning radius, slow accelerate and decelerate. Makes it harder to survive and requires greater precision and prediction.
5) Rank players by survival order. (We'll make the starter bots suicide or something.)

Other things I like the idea of.

1) Heat seeking missiles. This is basically a simple AI with a bad turning radius that you can easily avoid or lead to the enemy. Slightly faster than ships, so you must maneuver to avoid.
2) Disabling shot. Has a wide area of affect and would disable a ship for a few seconds.
3) If you get hit by an asteroid, you ship is pasted to it for the rest of the game.
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Re: Prototype & Proposal: Multiplayer Asteroids

Postby smiley1983 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:43 pm

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Re: Prototype & Proposal: Multiplayer Asteroids

Postby eiisolver » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:19 pm

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Re: Prototype & Proposal: Multiplayer Asteroids

Postby McLeopold » Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:12 am

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Re: Prototype & Proposal: Multiplayer Asteroids

Postby akarukov » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:54 am

Some words about McLeopold's favor mechanics:

"3) Predictable asteroid splitting, as much as possible giving floating point accuracy." - Great! Fundamental question for now.
"1) Asteroids continue splitting to make survival harder in the end game. It could be a count of splits that can be configured and tuned. Asteroids is 3, we could have 10-20." - I do not understand. McLeopold could you comment it ?
"3) If you get hit by an asteroid, you ship is pasted to it for the rest of the game." - I do not understand. McLeopold could you comment it? What will be changed in mechanics?
"4) Limited mobility. Large turning radius, slow accelerate and decelerate. Makes it harder to survive and requires greater precision and prediction." - as I tested current mobility is quite prefect (imho).
Asteroids move too slow... The number of asteroids is too low...

"Ship's energy, missiles, multiply ships, disabling shot" - It does not mean for prototype. It does mean for contest.
The first base algorithm for Ants was pathfinding.
The second base algorithm for Ants was battle engine.
The advanced algorithm for Ants was collaboration.
The most advanced algorithm for Ants was strategy. (survival strategy or attack strategy and so on...)

The barrier of entry depends of the base algorithm for Asteroids.
The behaviour of your enemies is unpredictable.
Should be splitting of asteroids predictable?
Should be splitting of asteroids PARTIALLY predictable?
I think it is fundamental question for now.

Let's form the final rules for the splitting of asteroids. Predictable / partially predictable / unpredictable ?
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Re: Prototype & Proposal: Multiplayer Asteroids

Postby delt0r » Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:07 pm

I quite like this idea. Before ants got all the attention last year i suggested something kinda like this. The upshot is that i got a 100% integer engine working with the idea of full squads per team. So cutting it back to simpler ships would not be hard. In short, i would be prepared to sink some time into this. A engine spec and a java reference implementation for example.

For all these sort of games a finite max speed is always needed for all objects. Doing the integration is pretty easy. Let there be more math steps than game steps and stick with Euler integration. The math steps per game steps is easy to work out with smallest object and max speed.

For game play I would be strongly in favor of n ships per team that is "map" dependent. 2 types of shot --ie homing missile, normal gun. Perhaps with different energy requirements and "cool downs". Also shields are always fun. When on, you can't shoot and rather than damage, you get bumped around and lose energy.

My last suggestion would be some kind of non destructible terrain. ie asteroids you can't blow up. Possibly stationary to create a "map".

Now for my 2c worth on asteroids blowing up. Each asteroid shot gets blasted into a Poisson number of fragments with the min at 3. Momentum is conserved (yea i do physics) mass distributions is always equal, physics tells us the rest more or less. A shot adds some energy so the total velocity goes up and momentum... perhaps drag would be needed not to make it impossible later in the game.

Also do asteroids collide?

Do bots control thrust level rather than just on and off? I think they should. It permits courser "turns".
It was like that when I got here.
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