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AI Challenge Forums • View topic - Final Tournament Rules

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Final Tournament Rules

Random stuff about the contest, posts that don't fit in the other forums.

Re: Final Tournament Rules

Postby amstan » Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:03 am

I have added 30 random maps, have fun with them.

Correction: 60
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Re: Final Tournament Rules

Postby Accoun_ » Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:08 am

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Re: Final Tournament Rules

Postby amstan » Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:15 am

Not a good idea to add big maps for now. The contest will crawl to a half if we have 50x50 maps.
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ELO-Ranking is a poor choice for the final tournament

Postby superjhemp » Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:40 am

Hi,

I do not at all agree with the ELO-ranking for the final tournament for some good reasons.

* ELO is not time-invariant! That is if a player A wins against C while C is low in the ranking, and another player B wins against C while C is high on the ranking, the ELO points of B will increase more than the ones of A (supposing same starting conditions for both players)

* ELO is nice in tournaments where competitors improve over time, e.g. winning against the actual world champion in chess today is different from winning against that same person when that person was 5 years old. But in our case, the code is submitted and doesn't improve over the tournament.

* Thus to make it fair, the best would be to come back to the win=1-draw=0.5-loss=0 grading or to do a pointer-like ELO that is evaluated only at the end of the tournament and with the final ELO-points of each player. That's indeed a very nice algorithmic challenge ;)

Nevertheless, I agree that the idea of ELO was great for the every-day tournaments where it reflects the strength of players accurately. But in Round-Robin, ELO looses all of its utility and turns out to be unfair (because of not being time-invariant, e.g. the order of the games matters)

Please organizers, comment on this.

Thanks
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Re: ELO-Ranking is a poor choice for the final tournament

Postby Fritzlein » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:51 pm

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Re: Final Tournament Rules

Postby Fritzlein » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:52 pm

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Re: ELO-Ranking is a poor choice for the final tournament

Postby kduleba » Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:48 pm

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Re: Final Tournament Rules

Postby jeff.cameron » Sat Feb 27, 2010 4:03 am

You guys are great. I love all the feedback. It seems like there are a few things that everyone agrees on almost unanimously:

1. Having accurate results is more important than having results quickly after the submission deadline.
2. We should use new, never-before-seen maps for the final tournament. This rewards better AIs, and punishes hardcoded strategies.
3. Getting lots of play between bots of comparable skill is important. We should use a swiss-like tournament instead of a roundrobin.

I believe it is possible to implement each of these suggestions. Here is what I propose:

1. Instead of releasing final results within 30 minutes, we will take the time that we need. At midnight, we will take down the leaderboard and disable the submission form. Early Monday morning, we will update the site with official results. This should be plenty of time to get nice, stable, accurate results.
2. The vast majority of the games played in the final tournament will be played on never-before-seen maps in order to reward true skill, and punish hardcoded strategies.
3. We will use a tournament that ensures lots of play between bots of comparable skill. The emphasis will be on making sure that each and every bot has many opportunities to demonstrate its strength.

What is the feedback to this proposal? Do you feel as though the major concerns have been addressed?
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Re: Final Tournament Rules

Postby Janzert » Sat Feb 27, 2010 4:34 am

It would be really nice if the leaderboard could be cleared, but then keep updating during the final tournament so we can watch the ongoing results.

Thanks for the great contest,
Janzert
Last edited by Janzert on Sat Feb 27, 2010 4:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Final Tournament Rules

Postby antimatroid » Sat Feb 27, 2010 4:34 am

I think that is fine, but please can you make sure the top 25 get run in a final tournament on their own with scores reset where each player plays each of the other bots in each of the maps from each of the starting positions, such that the final ranking will show which bot truly did perform better than any of the others on the given maps. Like others have said it is not important to get results immediately, accuracy of them is much more important given the amount of effort many of us have put in. It would also be nice to be able to watch the leader board while the tournaments are being run, to see what different players are doing, even if we can't necessarily watch the games at that point in time.
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